Remembering Kaye Ballard, 1925-2019

Yesterday, the world awoke to the news that the singer, actress and comedienne Kaye Ballard, famous for originating roles in Broadway’s “Carnival” and “Golden Apple,” and on the TV sitcom The Mothers-in -Law, had died at her home in Rancho Mirage, California, at the age of 93.

Kaye’s death comes just a week after that of one of her best friends, another beloved Broadway and comedy legend (and another fixture in the Palm Springs area), Carol Channing, who died just short of her 98th birthday.

with Kaye Ballard in the New York studios
of Sirius XM for "The Frank DeCaro Show"
September 28, 2010

I had the pleasure of meeting both Carol and Kaye when they guested on Sirius XM’s “The Frank DeCaro Show,” as well as in interviews celebrating many of their famous projects.  For my upcoming book on The Love Boat, I was fortunate enough to get a fun story out of Carol.  And two years ago this month, I spoke by phone with Kaye about The Love Boat and so much more of her career.  My fellow paesana, Kaye and I got along famously – and we even compared notes about Southern Italian cuisine.  After all, as Kaye would point out when giving out her phone number, the digits even had the word EAT embedded within.

Below, just a bit of our fun conversation, which I’m so glad I had the opportunity to have with a show business legend.

Must-Hear TV:  Tell me about the documentary you’re working on, about your life and career.

Kaye Ballard:  You will be shocked with some of the people who spoke on it! Hal Prince and Woody Allen – who never talks about anything.  I’m so thrilled he said yes.  I knew him when he first started. He’s been wonderful.  And I always write him after a movie and rate it.

I have worked with great, great people, honey.  All the people I worked with on The Perry Como Show.  Being this old and never stopping to win an Emmy or anything like that, I just kept working and meeting all these people, and getting to know them.

MHTV:  A few years ago, I saw a lot of your talented friends join you on stage in Palm Springs, when you gave your “Going Out of Business” retirement performance.

Carol Channing and Kaye Ballard
at the Camelot Theater in Palm Springs
following the performance of
"Kaye Ballard: Going Out of Business"
March, 2014

KB:  Oh, Carol Channing!  My Carol Channing.  She did a number in that show.  Oh god, I love that number [Cecilia Sisson].  And I genuinely laugh that hard at that number every time I hear it.  The audacity of her taking that long, and to keep whistling – she’s one of the most wonderful people in the world.

MHTV:  Other than The Love Boat, you’ve had so many great TV roles.  I talked with Bernie Kopell about working with you on The Doris Day Show.

KB:  And we worked with Billy DeWolfe, who was a very close friend of mine.  He was one of the funniest men who ever lived.  He called me “Rose Boozy,” and he called Doris “Clara Bixby.”  He was just wonderful, and had the kind of wit that I think is missing today.

MHTV:  And of course, it was on for only two seasons, but people still remember and love The Mothers-in-Law.

KB:  That was my favorite thing, because I loved Eve Arden and I loved my first husband, Roger C. Carmel.  Oh my God, what a great actor he was.  Do you realize that that show went off the air because they wouldn’t give us a $250 raise?  Isn’t that funny?  It was amazing.  Eve Arden and I said, “Forget the raise – we want to keep going!”  But Roger said “No, it’s the principle of the thing, Cutes,” and they replaced him, which ended up being a mistake for the show. 

MHTV:  In addition to this documentary, a few years ago, you also published your memoir, How I Lost 10 Pounds in 53 Years.

KB:  Every word is true, and I think you can get it on amazon for either $5 or $10.  It’s wonderful what happened last year -- I had sent it to [theater and book critic] John Simon, and he threw it aside.  But then he wrote in his blog, “I picked up a book that Kaye Ballard wrote 6 or 7 years ago, and I’m so sorry I waited that long.”  And he just loved it.  And so he made my old age!

MHTV:  Tell me more about your documentary [titled Kaye Ballard: The Show Goes On, which premiered earlier this month at the Palm Springs International Film Festival, after which Kaye, suffering from heart problems just weeks before her death, received a standing ovation.]

KB:  At the moment it’s called “Medium Rare and Well Done.”  Because I’ve been in every medium of show business, and it’s called “Rare” because Carol Channing and I were maybe two of the people living who performed for the princess before she was queen.  So that’s pretty good.

MHTV:  Is that Princess Victoria, you mean?

KB:  Elizabeth!  Not Victoria, you cruel little person.

I say “Well Done,” because I think I have done it well.  Even though I didn’t win a Tony or an Emmy – that frustrates me to death.  Everything is politics, not only in show business, in every business.  Because I deserved one.  I certainly deserved nominations.  For “Carnival,” for “Golden Apple” – I should have won.

At that time, I was doing every medium, and they didn’t have respect for people who could do every medium.

MHTV:  Was there a stigma back then against actors who appeared on TV?

KB:  It’s not like that anymore, but it was then.  If you were kind of a hit in supper clubs, they didn’t think of you seriously as an actress or anything else.  But since then, I’ve proven it to myself, because I’ve done plays with Imogene Coca, Sandy Dennis – I could name many other people.  And so therefore, I know I was good.  That’s why I say “And Well Done.”

I thought I was pretty damn good in all the things I did, and I never resorted to any kind of vulgarity.  That’s what I resent today.  It was Jack Benny who told me that – he said, “Funny is funny, and you don’t have to go that far.”

And you know what was funny -- when I did The Mothers-in-Law, and I bit my fist, [the network censors] called the Italian embassy.  And when the Italian embassy came on the set, they asked them, “Hey, what does that mean?”  but you know, I say “Va Fa Napoli.”  That sounds like it could be vulgar, but it means “Go to Naples.”

I did the movie The Ritz, and I had to say “FUCK” in the last scene.  My mother wouldn’t talk to me for months.  I had to do that.  I said it once, and I got this long grief in this f-ing family.  My mother went into shock.

MHTV:  Was your mother very proper?

KB:  She was from Calabria.  She came over from Italy when she was about 8 or 10.  And talk about grief, my grandmother came over with five kids and one of them died of diphtheria on the ship.  It took them 30 days to come across.  It was the cattle boat.  I’ve had an interesting life.

MHTV:  Which we’re about to see on the big screen.

KB:  The documentary has all these interviews, and now the filmmaker will piece it together.  Michael Feinstein, Rex Reed, Liz Smith, wonderful people.  Donna McKechnie, Jerry Stiller – my best friend.  Oh, I love him more than I can tell you.

I’ve been lucky.  I’ve met all the people I’ve really admired, and got to know them, like Bette Davis and Cary Grant and Barbara Stanwyck, and another idol, Irene Dunne.  Clark Gable, I asked him for an autograph, and he said, “The heck I’ll give you an autograph, but I’ll give you a kiss.”

MHTV:  Did you take the kiss from Gable?

KB:  Yes.  It was when I first performed with [bandleader] Spike Jones, in 1947 or ‘48.  We were playing the Trocadero, and I went up to Gable and said “Oh my God, I’d love it – can I have your autograph?”  And he said no, but he stepped and kissed me on the cheek.  I thought “Oh my lord!”  It was wonderful.

I think people are going to say, “Oh, you didn’t know all those people” – but I knew much more than that!  When I went to England, I turned down a date with Richard Burton, because I was doing two shows a day.  But then I met his wife and Jean Simmons and Glynis Johns and Michael Wilding.  I was fascinated with anybody in show business who achieved excellence.

MHTV:  You mean you could have had those diamonds instead of Liz Taylor?

KB:    I doubt it.  I wouldn’t even know how to be a glamour queen.

MHTV:  They say that passion for something, like your appreciation of excellence in a performer, is what keeps people going.

KB:  That’s it.  I can get jaded today with some of the performances.  But I still admire.  I’m a fan.  I’m an eternal fan.

Rose Marie Waited For Her Laugh

Throughout her record-breaking, nine-decade career in show business, Rose Marie was an expert in getting -- and yes, waiting for -- her laugh.  She began performing at age three, after winning a contest, and by age 4 was a bona fide child star.  At age 5, she had her own national radio show on NBC; she soon starred in the first all-talking short film, Baby Rose Marie: The Child Wonder, to open in theaters nationwide.

Later in life, Rose Marie would land the role we remember and love her for the most, playing comedy writer Sally Rogers on The Dick Van Dyke Show.  But as the lady herself told me when we spoke just this past September, her other appearances on landmark TV shows over six decades are too numerous to recount.

For what turned out to be her last three years, Rose Marie worked with filmmaker Jason Wise on a documentary about her life and career, Wait For Your Laugh.

It truly is amazing that the actress, who died on December 28 at age 94, lived just long enough not just to see the release of the film, but to bask in the audience's reaction and their shows of affection for her long career.

Below, a snippet from my talk with Rose Marie from September 27:

Rose Marie: .From my whole career, everyone was wonderful -- I can't give you any bad talk.  I’ve been very lucky.  I’ve worked with wonderful people.  They’ve always been very nice to me and always respected me for who I am and what I am.  We were all professionals, and it was wonderful.  

Must-Hear TV:  And I know that's all captured in your film, Wait For Your Laugh.

RM:  The film is wonderful.  Even I was impressed.  I didn't do it -- it was all Jason, the director.  It took him about three years, and he did it all.  I just sat around and emptied out my house.  All the stuff I ever collected, or kept, he used in the film.

Appearing in Wait For Your Laugh, l-r:  Peter Marshall, Carl Reiner,
Rose Marie, Dick Van Dyke, Tim Conway

Must-Hear TV:  How does it feel at this point in career and life to have attention again?

RM:  It’s amazing to me.  As I always say, if I'd known how good it was at the time, I’d have paid more attention to it!  I want you to see the film.  I wish there was some way you could let me know if you liked it.

I wish there were, too.  Just this past year, Rose Marie joined twitter, and so I ended our conversation by promising I'd send a tweet after seeing the film.  And so now, I'm hoping that if Twitter can be used for evil -- such as our supposed leader trying to provoke nuclear war -- then perhaps it can be used to send love and thanks for the years and years of laughs, even to the great beyond.

See Linda Bloodworth-Thomason's "Bridegroom"

This Sunday, October 27 at 10 PM ET, Oprah Winfrey’s OWN network will present the television premiere of a powerful new documentary, Bridegroom.  It’s the story of an impossibly handsome young couple in Los Angeles who were also perfectly, almost impossibly so, in love.  Tom Bridegroom was an aspiring actor and talented musician who had relocated from rural Indiana; Shane Bitney Crone a sometime actor and filmmaker from rural Montana.  The ambitious duo traveled the world together, documenting their adventures in video series they posted to the web.  They had big plans.

But their time together was cut tragically short in 2011 when at age 29, Tom was killed in a freak accident, falling four stories off the roof of a friend’s apartment building.  The film arising from the couple’s devastating story – of pain and loss, of hurt and forgiveness, of homophobia and yet also family bonding – is sure to make you cry throughout.  (And it doesn’t hurt that Bridegroom was assembled largely from Tom and Shane’s own homemade footage by executive producer Linda Bloodworth-Thomason, of Designing Women fame, who is certainly a pro at evoking laughs and tears.)  In their attempt to whitewash Tom’s entire post-college life, and thus hopefully erase the sin of his gayness, the Bridegroom family banned Shane and in fact all of the couple’s Los Angeles friends from attending their son’s Indiana funeral.  The immediate family has had no contact since Tom’s death with either Shane or with the filmmakers who sought their comment.

Bridegroom first screened at the TriBeCa film festival earlier this year, where it won the Best Documentary prize, and also this summer at Outfest, where it also won an award for Outstanding Documentary Feature.  Last week, the film had its Los Angeles premiere.  And the following afternoon, I had the chance to sit down with both Shane and Linda, to talk about the project’s genesis and more importantly, its impact.

Must-Hear TV:   I can’t imagine what your feelings are, seeing this completed film about your life and love.  I know you’re a producer of Bridegroom -- how many times have you seen it so far?

Shane Bitney Crone:  I’ve probably seen it 50 times now.

MHTV:  Does it ever not evoke a visceral response in you?

SBC:  It can be very intense, going from festival to festival with it.  Lately, I’ve just waited outside the theater.  I don’t necessarily sit there the entire time, because it is emotional for me.  Sometimes it’s good for me just to step outside and take a break.

MHTV:  But you know when everyone leaves the theater, they’ll be crying.  And for audiences, in a way, getting to meet you offers them consolation after having cried through the film.  I know that getting to express my feelings to you made me feel better.  But is that hard for you to relive every time?

SBC:  That’s one thing that a lot of people ask me.  “Isn’t it hard to continue telling this story?  Do you think that it’s good for you?”  But meeting people and sharing this story has been healing, and has helped me in so many ways.  There’s so much positive coming from it that it makes it not depressing, and it makes me feel like I’m doing the right thing.  It’s great to have support on my facebook and social networks, to hear from people that way, but meeting people face to face has definitely been one of the best parts of all of this.  I’ve met some incredible people, and heard some amazing stories.

MHTV:  People must want to pour their own stories out to you, people who had either supportive or unsupportive families.  What have been the most amazing stories you’ve heard, where people have said, “This changed my life?”

SBC:  I never realized before that what I’ve gone through has happened to so many people.  I didn’t realize thousands of couples have gone through horrible experiences.  So for me, it wasn’t until after I posted the YouTube video [called "It Could Happen To You," which sparked Bloodworth-Thomason’s interest in making a film, and a kickstarter campaign to finance it] that I realized that.  So in a way, as much as this is my story, or my film or Linda’s film, it’s really not.  It’s the people’s film, because it represents so many.  I’ve heard from teenagers who said that the story has prevented them from taking their own lives.  Just to hear things like that, it just makes you feel so grateful that it’s connecting with them on such a deep level.

And then to hear at some festivals from some really big men who come up to me and say, “I’m a straight man.  Someone dragged me here and I didn’t know what to expect.  I had never understood or supported marriage equality – and now I’m sorry.”  When I hear things like that, wow!  It makes me think that this isn’t about me.  It’s so much bigger than me.  And if sharing my story is having that effect, then that’s what I have to do, keep sharing.

MHTV:  I hate to suggest that there was a benefit from Tom’s death, but at least his death has brought about this change, to open people’s eyes and their hearts, and to save lives.  At least his death wasn’t in vain.

Shane Bitney Crone

SBC:  The year after Tom passed away, I spent so much time just trying to make sense of it, and I couldn’t.  When I posted the YouTube video, it was the first moment when I felt that something good came from it.  And then that also helped me to understand better who I am, and helped me stand up for what I believe in.  And to not be so ashamed of being who I am.

MHTV:  It seems like this whole experience has galvanized your family, too, around you.  They were always supportive, but now they really have your back.

SBC:  My mom is an amazing mom.  It’s funny, because on facebook, she posts everything that I’m doing, everything that’s happening.  People text me and say, “You know your mom is so proud,” and that makes me feel so good.  I’m happy that people get to see my family, and see how important it is for families to support each other.  It’s interesting, because my family and Tom’s family, they’re really not that different. 

MHTV:  As we see in the film, they started in the same place, anyway.  Conservative, rural, Republican…

SBC:  Exactly.  It’s such a powerful part of the film, to show how important it is for parents to love their children unconditionally.

MHTV:   What a contrast between them.  One family says “We don’t understand this, but we’re going to try to accept it,” and the other goes backward, stagnating and threatening violence.  What made the families react so differently?

SBC:  Someone asked me this morning, “Why do you think your mom is so accepting and so supportive?” I was trying to come up with the reason, but I don’t necessarily have an answer as to why my family is like that.  I’m just lucky that they are who they are, and that they have the hearts that they do.

MHTV:  Are they religious people, your family?  The film has pictures of both you and Tom and your families in churches growing up.

SBC:  Kind of, but not too much.  We went to church growing up, a Lutheran church.  But we weren’t like Tom’s family, who talked about the Bible every morning at the table.  They’re very religious.  Maybe religion has a lot to do with it, but at the same time, I don’t necessarily know what can cause people to decide to be more accepting.

MHTV:  This film will.  I defy anyone, even if he or she doesn’t stand up for gay marriage, to see a film depicting the death of this beautiful young man, and the end of this loving relationship, and not cry.  You’re not human if you’re not moved by it.

SBC:  But I don’t really know how we’ll reach the people we want to reach.  I have a feeling it’s going to be a situation where people who are struggling with being gay can ask someone to watch the film.  I hope that that way, we can reach the people we need to.

MHTV:  Could the film be a tool for coming out?  Send it to your parents and say, “Watch this, then we’ll talk.”

SBC:  Yes.  Growing up, I wish there had been something like that for me, to help me say, “This is me.  I need you to love me unconditionally.”  Of course there are shows now like Glee and Modern Family, which do help a lot of people.  But at the time, I didn’t really have any shows like that.  It just goes to show how much film and television can influence people.

MHTV:  You and Tom were both really into film and television from the beginning of your relationship.

SBC:  I had convinced my family I’d wanted to move to LA to be an actor, but I quickly realized it was more that I just wanted to get here.  I really just wanted to be in a city where I could be me.  But if growing up I’d said, “I want to move to LA,” they’d ask why – so at least acting was a reason I could give.  But Tom and I did film a lot of our life together, and planned a lot of projects.  We did talk about making a documentary, but I never imagined this would be the documentary we would make.

MHTV:  You and Tom first met Linda Bloodworth-Thomason at a wedding – and as she remembers, you said you were big Designing Women fans, as are lots of gay men.  I know she meets thousands of them, in fact – but you guys made such an impression on Linda that she remembered you years later, when she saw your video on YouTube.  Do you know how that happened?

SBC:  I’m not really sure exactly, other than that we had conversation with Linda about how we so desperately wanted to get married someday when it was legal – but also, when we were ready.  Because there was a short window when we could have gotten married [in California], but we also didn’t want to go down to the courthouse just because everyone was doing it at that moment.  We wanted it to be special and spontaneous like it is for other people.  But to think, though, about meeting Linda that night, and then four years later meeting with her to talk about making a documentary about Tom – it’s kind of surreal.

MHTV:  We know from the film what Tom’s mother did and didn’t do, and his father.  But Tom also had siblings.  Did you have a relationship with any of them?  I’m wondering why they didn’t stand up for you, or for what was right.

SBC:  I think it has a lot to do with being in a small town, and the whole idea that blood is thicker than water, like my mom has always said.  Family is all you really have at the end of the day, and do you want to potentially risk losing your relationship with your parents?  I think maybe that’s not worth the risk sometimes, so I try to be understanding and respectful of that.  And there are [more distant] relatives of Tom’s who are supportive, who support me, and the film, and the relationship.

MHTV:  Does any of them have the name Bridegroom?

Tom Bridegroom
April 22, 1982 - May 7, 2011

SBC:  Yes, there are some Bridegrooms.

MHTV:  It is an unusual name.

SBC:  It is, and honestly I didn’t think about Tom’s last name too much until I met with Linda.  She said, “Shane, do you realize the irony in his last name?!”  And I realized, “You’re right, that’s pretty crazy.”

MHTV:  The way the film saves the double meaning of the word for the reveal in the last shot, it’s like a gut punch.  The irony hits you at that moment.

SBC:  In fact, some people thought that we [the filmmakers] put the name on the gravestone.  No!  It just makes me feel like maybe it was meant to be.

MHTV:  You still haven’t heard from any of the main Bridegroom family, though?

SBC:  I haven’t.  I don’t know if I ever will hear from his parents.  I want to send them the film, and hopefully they’ll watch it.  This could potentially be the opportunity for them to help a lot of people.  They could turn this around.  Even if they just said, “Look, we made some mistakes while struggling and trying to be okay with it.”  Because a lot of people are struggling with that.  People evolve and can change, and I think they could really make a difference if they wanted to.

MHTV:  You're still just 27.  Where do you want to go from here?

SBC:  I’m not sure what happens next.  All I know is I’m trying to be in the moment, and trust that everything will happen the way it’s supposed to.

MHTV:  In terms of career?  Are you a filmmaker?

SBC:  Maybe, if there’s something I’m really passionate about.  This has turned into my full-time job, just sharing this story.  I partnered with some organizations, like GLAAD and HRC.  I might do a speaking tour of campuses, and meet people.  It scares me – I don’t like the idea of public speaking.  But if it can help people, I feel like I can do it.

Bridegroom airs this Sunday, October 27, at 10 PM ET on OWN, and on the same date, will also be available on Netflix.

In addition, Shane Bitney Crone can be heard this Friday, October 25 at 1 PM Eastern / 10 AM Pacific on “The Frank DeCaro Show” on Sirius XM’s OutQ radio.

For more information, go to www.BridegroomMovie.com.