In Honor of Rob Reiner and Anthony Geary

In 2020, I had the honor of co-authoring a book with the late legend Norman Lear about his seminal sitcom, All in the Family. As part of that process, I got to interview so many of my idols, from Norman himself to two of the show's stars, Rob Reiner and Sally Struthers, plus lots of guest actors, writers, directors, and crew members who brought the groundbreaking Bunkers to life.

Yesterday, the world learned the sad news about the tragic deaths of Rob Reiner and his wife, Michele. And today, we learned that on that same day, December 14, the world lost Anthony Geary, who had been living in Amsterdam with his husband, and remained best known for playing Luke, one half of soapdom's most famous couple on General Hospital decades back. But most people may not realize that Geary had one of his very first acting roles on All in the Family, playing Mike Stivic's possibly gay friend, Roger.

The episode featured one (or possibly two) of the earliest depictions of a gay character on network television, and still holds up to day for its bravery and strong message -- and of course its comedic genius. I'm devastated by the loss of both Rob Reiner and Anthony Geary on the same day, and can't help but think of this episode from All in the Family's first season, "Judging Books By Covers." I'm sharing here the full writeup about the episode for the book, All in the Family: The Show That Changed Television, that was published by Rizzoli in 2021. I urge you to check it out, as we remember these two greats taken from us tragically and too soon.

L-r, Rob Reiner, Anthony Geary and Sally Struthers
in the historic fifth episode of All in the Family's debut season,
"Judging Books By Covers"

Season 1, Episode 5

“Judging Books By Covers”

Written by: Burt Styler

Directed by: John Rich

Guest Stars: Anthony Geary as Roger

                      Philip Carey as Steve

                      Bob Hastings as Tommy Kelcy

                      Billy Halop as Barney

                      Billy Sands as Nick

                      Linn Patrick as Jerry

Original Air Date: February 9, 1971

Synopsis: After surmising an effeminate friend of Mike and Gloria’s to be gay, Archie discovers that one of his old bar buddies, his football idol, is himself homosexual.

Norman Lear: Gay people were then and are now a part of everyday life, which is why we did this episode. It’s not that we were looking for subjects that would startle or stun an audience. We just wanted to look at real life, and deal with subjects that mattered. So while in 1971 this story may have been something new to television, it wasn’t new in the neighborhood. You didn’t get to be as old as I was and not know someone who was gay.

Now, what could be better dramatically and comedically than Archie, after going on and on about Mike’s friend at the bar, then not only learning that a guy he admired for years as a great football player and a strong male is gay, but to learn it as they were arm wrestling, right there in their moment of “double maleness?”

Steve is a big guy who could easily slam Archie’s arm down, and boom! He did. I like that Steve was very matter-of-fact about his sexuality, and didn’t hate Archie for his attitude. He had long since learned to live his life.

In arguing about Roger, Archie says, “I never said a guy who wears glasses is a queer. A guy who wears glasses is a four-eyes. A guy who's a fag is a queer.” I’ll never forget that line. I don’t remember having trouble with too much of the language in this episode from the network – but I do remember being surprised that not everybody knew the expression “four eyes.” There had been a time when if someone wore glasses, it was socially more noticeable, enough to elicit comment. At that time, a guy who wore glasses was a “four eyes.” Apparently later, that wasn’t an exceptionally well-known expression. 

There’s another memorable bit in this episode, too: the “trick” Gloria and Mike show Archie and Edith, involving trying to step back from the wall, lean down over a chair, pick it up and stand up straight. It’s something that women can do, and men can’t, based on balance. It had been something that was going around at the time, and I remember someone showing it to me. When I tried to do it myself, and had a difficult time, I realized how well it would work on the show for our characters.

Anthony Geary: I had just left college in Utah and come to L.A. in a play. Then I got this script, and was really shocked and excited about it. In those days, to be gay, you would hear everything in terms of negative reactions. It might make you not want to get out of bed in the morning, because it was so oppressive, and so minimizing as a human being. I know because I am gay, and I had to face some fear about this role, but then I realized I had to do it, because it was just too good, and too special. This show was new, and was already jumping into deep water.

I hadn't done that much television or film, but even though the TV process was new to me, it felt very comfortable to have a few days to rehearse, and then have the audience there and get their immediate reactions. The episode happened to tape on the very day that All in the Family was premiering on TV. And I do remember how on that day, everybody was really nervous, because they didn’t really know what they had. But then, just as we were about to shoot the show, some reactions came in from the show’s airing in New York, and everyone was thrilled, and after the show went out to an after-party.

But that also meant that I was appearing on this show knowing nothing about it. What style was it? The characters seem to be acting realistically, but it’s obviously a farce. But a farce with societal statements? As iconic as the Bunkers later became, I knew nothing about them. And it was hard to figure out how to fit in.

I remember a little tension early in the rehearsal process, because I tried some things that weren’t appreciated. For one thing, just to watch Jean Stapleton being the dingbat was so much fun! I would be constantly laughing, and so I tried to make it part of the character, as if I wasn’t suppressing myself. They didn’t like that, and that makes sense. But Jean, then can you stop being so goddamn funny?! Jean would be very comforting, and would take my hand when she saw things going a little rough in rehearsal.

I had to figure out exactly how gay Roger would be, although I loathe saying that, because any of us who is gay or knows gay people knows that there’s no one way to be gay. But in that script, Roger had to elicit strong feelings from Archie. So I tried to make him just the friendliest kind of guy imaginable, flamboyant, with lots of gestures, excited about life, a younger-than-springtime kind of guy. I asked from the wardrobe department to give me a longer scarf than they had initially provided, so that when I came through the door and started talking with my hands, I could really get that thing flying. I figured Roger was going so fast and having such a good time with his little life that he didn’t even hear the negative kinds of things like Archie would say. It was silly, and cartoony in a way, but it seemed to work.

After a while in rehearsal, Norman called me aside and said, “I love what you're doing. It's absolutely perfect. Don't change a thing. There are a lot of feelings around this episode from the network all the way down. We're taking a big risk here, but you're being very courageous.” That relieved me of all my fear, and then I was able to go forward. It ended up being an extremely positive experience for me. This episode has turned out to be an iconic piece, and I’m proud of it. I quite like “Roger the Fairy.” He is precious to me.

You Will Love Love, Victor

Love, Victor, starring Michael Cimino as Creekwood High School's latest queer/questioning student,  premieres Wednesday, June 17 on Hulu

Love, Victor, starring Michael Cimino as Creekwood High School's latest queer/questioning student,

 premieres Wednesday, June 17 on Hulu

In 2018, Love, Simon made big-screen history as Hollywood’s first gay teen romcom.  Based on Becky Albertalli’s 2015 YA novel Simon vs. the Homo Sapiens Agenda, the film, adapted by This Is Us head-writing duo Isaac Aptaker and Elizabeth Berger and directed by gay powerhouse producer Greg Berlanti, ended up grossing $66.3 million in worldwide box office, against a production budget of $10-17 million, making it a bona fide hit – and deservedly so.

Having seen Love, Simon at least a half-dozen times since its release – it has become one of those films that, if I happen to come across it on TV or even on screen in a bar, I just drop everything, settle in and watch it to the end – I was both excited and maybe even a little nervous to hear that the film was being further adapted into a television series, Love, Victor.

Now, after viewing all ten episodes of Love, Victor’s first season (which drops on Hulu this Wednesday, June 17), I am not just pleasantly surprised, but thrilled by this expansion of the Simonverse.  The show has all the film’s best DNA, including literal links to the Simon characters we fell in love with, and yet expands the world of Creekwood with new, endearing, and more diverse characters.

Actually, I didn’t just “view” all ten episodes of Love, Victor; that word is way too casual for what my husband, Frank DeCaro, and I did that night last week.  We binged Love, Victor.  We devoured it.  And days and days later, we can’t stop thinking about it.  The show may be more literally aimed at a teen audience, to match its mostly teen characters; but for older viewers as well, gay or straight, it brilliantly brings you back to those moments in high school when decisions were tough, when the stakes were high, and when abject humiliation seemed imminent.

So if you’re like me, and immediately binge all ten roughly half-hour episodes in one sitting and are left in its particularly satisfying, cliffhanging end moments, you’ll be googling to find out what’s next for Victor and the entire Salazar family in Atlanta.  That’s why, in my interview with Love, Victor’s executive producer and showrunner Brian Tanen below, I start with mention of season two, and work my way back.

Love, Victor showrunner Brian Tanen

Must-Hear TV:  Here we are, just a few days before Love, Victor premieres on Hulu – and in what seems to be a big show of confidence on the part of the network, the show is already renewed for a second season.  At this moment, how far are you into writing season two?

Brian Tanen:  We have been at it for a few weeks. We're in the early to middle part of the season, coming up with ideas for what we might be headed, and it's really exciting. [With season one] it was incredibly exciting and meaningful experience to get to work on a show and a season about a kid really figuring out who he is and, and as we do within the LGBT community, having to come to terms with it and stop being afraid of it, start embracing it and eventually even feel pride for who you are.

That's really the journey of season one.  So season two is exciting, because it's all those things that happen next. Once you have figured out who you are, you have a whole range of experiences that you've been denying yourself. And so it's really wonderful to get to have a character who has figured things out and gets to experience first, love first heartbreaks, first sexual experiences  -- all the rich experiences that everyone has.

Must-Hear TV:  Yes, and I won’t give away the season one cliffhanger, but boy, did you leave us on a cliff!  

Brian Tanen:  It's a cliffhanger but it is also a really important, conclusive ending to the story of season one.

Ana Ortiz and James Martinez as Victor's parents, Isabel and Armando Salazar.

Previously, Ana has played the mother of a  gay son (Mark Indelicato) on Ugly Betty,

while James currently recurs as the father of a queer daughter

(Isabella Gomez) on Pop's One Day at a Time.

Must-Hear TV:  When you wrote that last scene of the first season, did you write beyond it, or even shoot further into the scene to use it in season 2?

Brian Tanen:  I think our feeling was that it was Victor's [Michael Cimino] journey.  And we knew that we didn't want to go past that. In the opening moments of the show, Victor tells the audience that his story is nothing like Simon's. And while we know [Victor’s parents] Isabel and Armando [Ana Ortiz and James Martinez] at this point of the season, and we know that they're crazy about their kid, we also know that they're more conservative, they're deeply religious, and we just know that it's going to be a more complicated journey ahead for Victor.

One of Armando's first questions is where in the new Atlanta

apartment to hang the crucifix.

Must-Hear TV:  What was your first experience with the “Simonverse” or the Creekwood universe?  Did you read the book?  Had you seen the movie?  How did you get involved with Love, Victor?

Nick Robinson in Love, Simon,  released in 2018.  Nick is one of the producers of Love, Victor.

Nick Robinson in Love, Simon,

 released in 2018.  Nick is one
of the producers of Love, Victor.

Brian Tanen:  I came to the project originally as a fan. I had seen the movie and loved it.  Then Isaac Aptaker and Elizabeth Berger, who wrote the film and created this series, met with me early on in the process to talk about how they wanted to adapt it from film to television, and they pitched out for me, what their take was on expanding the universe of Creekwood and how the new story would be connected to Simon from the film, and I thought it was such a brilliant take. I absolutely adored the movie. But I understood some of the conversation about the fact that Simon had this idealized experience.  The fact that so much of LGBT representation is always focused on white characters. The fact that Simon's family was so accepting, and wealthy, it just seemed like that character came from a certain amount of privilege. And there was certainly an opportunity to tell a different story here, which really excited me.

Must-Hear TV:  In the structure of the show, Victor writes to Simon in each episode for advice.  In season two, will we see Victor pay it forward to someone else?

Brian Tanen:  I won't give any spoilers for season two, but I know on the writers’ room wish list we would love for Victor to not be alone as an LGBT student at Creekwood. I know we'd love to be more queer characters to populate our world.

Must-Hear TV:  When you start with a movie, how do you expand its world to add in more story for secondary characters?  Love, Simon had some great moments for supporting characters, but obviously with a series you have more time for that.  What were some of the conscious ways that you made Victor's world a little bigger than Simon’s had been?

Rachel Hilson as Victor's girlfriend, Mia

Brian Tanen:  One of my favorite parts about the show is that Victor isn't the only person dealing with secrets or problems. You learn over the course of the season about the personal problems of Mia [Rachel Hilson], Felix [Anthony Turpel] and Lake [Bebe Wood].  Everybody, especially teenage characters, is dealing with their own problems and their own secrets. And so it was a joy to be able to explore their lives and tell their stories, as well. And we have such a incredible cast of young actors. Each one of them to me feels like a little find.  So you just kind of wanted to live in their world and find out more and more about them.

Isabella Ferreira as Victor's sister, Pilar

Must-Hear TV:  As is Isabella Ferreira, who plays Victor’s sister, Pilar.  It feels like every one of those characters had his or her own moment of coming-out, not necessariliy as queer, but there was the same process of opening up and showing vulnerability.

Brian Tanen:  Yeah, I think that's exactly right. Even the parents are somewhat “closeted” about the things that are happening in their lives. The parents have this big secret, too, and that sort of explodes in the early to middle part of the season.

Must-Hear TV:  What was the thought process behind Victor's ethnicity? How did his family come to be Latinx?

Brian Tanen:  I think there was a concerted effort to tell a different story than Simon's from the film.  In queer representation, there’s often a focus on young, white men.  And we felt that a coming-out journey would be different through the lens of a non-white character.  And we were lucky to have a wonderful writing staff that was highly LGBT-forward and Latinx-forward, and as a result, we were able to pull from people's individual experiences so that the stories would be as authentic as they could be.

Anthony Turpel as Felix and Michael Cimino

 as Victor -- or is this "Velix?"

Must-Hear TV:  I’ve been contacted by people on twitter who are already ‘shipping different combinations of characters – I have one person asking me about “Velix” – and I don’t want to confirm or deny that that’s what happens.  But how did you decide the beats for Victor’s love story?  After Love, Simon, how do you tell another teen gay male love story differently?  It seems like there are only so many romcom tropes at your disposal.

Mason Gooding as jock and part-time

 antagonist, Andrew

Brian Tanen:  I have also seen the tweets where people are ‘shipping Victor and Felix, and they're ‘shipping Felix and Andrew [Mason Gooding], and there's an assumption that every character on the show will be queer.  And I find that so endearing!  Fans are guessing who's going to get together. And while a lot of it is not quite right, I do think there are individual little love stories within the season, some of which are platonic. But that those pairings are still ‘shippable, if you know what I mean, right?  I find Victor and Felix's relationship one of the most endearing of the entire show.  

George Sear as Creekwood's resident

out  student/barista/guitarist, Benji

In terms of telling a different teen gay love story, I think the story of Love, Simon was an untraditional romantic comedy in that it was two people who are missing each other the entire time, and didn’t know each other's identity. Love, Victor has some of the romcom DNA, but there's this doomed love triangle situation happening. We, the audience, are probably aware that this is not really going to work. But we also understand that there's real love there. And then there's Benji [George Sear], who is more like a fantasy all season, this ideal who makes Victor's heart go pitter patter.  I think in future seasons, all of that fantasy stuff kind of becomes real. There's actually a lot of story opportunity.

Must-Hear TV: What would this show have meant to you when you were a teenager? And turn that into a pitch for why teenagers should watch, and why adults should watch.

Brian Tanen:  I can't think of another show on television that has a young gay protagonist. So, for any teenager seeing this story, which has so much heart and affirmation and joy – well it’s funny that I get emotional thinking about it again, but you use it.  We would tell these stories in the writers’ room about things that happened to us in high school or, or what we wish had happened, and then we would get to put them in the show. So I think for any teenager who is struggling with these issues, to be able to see themselves represented on screen and represented in a way with heart and joy will just be an absolute breath of fresh air.  And for parents and really anyone else, the show is just incredibly charming and inclusive, and it will cure your summertime blues.  We're going through really turbulent times right now. The show has a message of love.  I feel like it’s kind of right what the doctor ordered right now.

Must-Hear TV:  I know it was obviously deliberate that the show would debut in June for Pride month, but who knew that we’d also be going through such turmoil as a country, and that the show could be a balm.

Brian Tanen:  We talk a lot in the writers’ room about how LGBTQ rights as we know them were largely born out of the Stonewall riots, and how that movement was championed and led by black trans activists.  So we feel a great deal of solidarity with what's happening in the country right now.  And I think the show hopefully feels like a show about inclusivity and equality and wanting to make the world a better place.

Must-Hear TV:  What I like about Victor is that he takes action to make his world better.  So many of the protagonists from the teen movies I knew were more passive, like Molly Ringwald waiting in the window for Jake to show up.  But there are a few moments in this season where Victor really takes a chance.

Brian Tanen:  Who amongst us hasn't been in a situation where you are close to the person you have a crush on?  And it feels like something might happen, but neither person is brave enough to make that move. But in our wish-fulfillment version, Victor goes for it.  For the writers, there was a lot of feeling like, “if only we could rewrite our own histories, and be braver.”  And even though it takes him a while, Victor does become a brave character.

Must-Hear TV:  Speaking of wish-fulfillment in looking back, do you think you will hear from older LGBT people who say, “If only I’d been more like Victor?”

Bebe Wood as Creekwood classmate Lake

Brian Tanen:  When Love, Simon came out, I noticed my Facebook feed was filled with comments from gay friends of mine, adults who had gone to see this film and absolutely loved it. And even though it’s about teenagers and is geared largely to a younger audience, a lot of LGBT adults didn't have that sort of romcom experience, so they still have an appetite for it, and still have a desire to see a younger generation have this moment.  So I'm hopeful that this will resonate with with adults as well.

Must-Hear TV:  What can you tell us about Season Two?  Because I'm sure there are going to be a lot of people like me who devour season one within one day and want to know more.

Brian Tanen:  Well, one thing I think I can say is that I think people are aware that the show had originally been written for Disney+, and then was eventually moved over to Hulu.  And now the reality of having our season two on Hulu provides so many opportunities to see these characters grow up. The writers on our staff, especially the gay writers, knew that one of the major problems with the representation of LGBTQ characters in media is that we're allowed to exist as long as we are not very sexual, if we're the funny friend, or the sidekick, but you rarely see narratives centered around characters who are have their own desires and crushes and sex lives. And so, now that we're on Hulu, that's something that I know we are all excited to write about, teenagers going through their first sexual experiences.  And what that looks like in 2020 when you're an LGBTQ teen.

Must-Hear TV:  So basically, thanks to Hulu, now you can be a little more risqué?

Brian Tanen:  I think we could be.  I think season two will be even sexier.

Love, Victor season 1 (10 episodes) premieres on Hulu on Wednesday, June 17.

It's Official -- Will & Grace is back!!

l-r, Sean Hayes, Megan Mullally,
Eric McCormack and Debra Messing in
Will & Grace

This morning at the TCA press tour, NBC started off with an announcement they knew we'd love:  the brilliant 1998-2006 sitcom Will & Grace is coming back in the 2017-18 season, as a 10-episode limited series.

When Will & Grace premiered in 1998, it was only the second network show to feature an out gay leading character -- and that was after Ellen DeGeneres' Ellen Morgan character had come out only in the latter seasons of her eponymous show, in 1997.  Will & Grace went on not only to win 18 Emmys for its writing and all four of its principal cast members, but inspired a generation of men and women, including me, in their coming-out journeys.

In 2004, I was lucky to get the assignment to write Will & Grace: Fabulously Uncensored, a behind-the-scenes coffee table book about the show.  Getting to hang out with that fab foursome -- Eric McCormack, Debra Messing, Sean Hayes and Megan Mullally -- plus the show's creators Max Mutchnick and David Kohan and its amazing writers and crew -- was truly like going to fantasy camp.

Now, a whole new generation will get the same inspiration I did all those years ago.  And after all, there's plenty to talk about in 2017.  In fact, the whole revival talks began when the W&G cast and creators released their video, "Vote, Honey" this past fall, urging Americans to get out and vote.  That itself had been a feat of serendipity, because the set for Will Truman's apartment still existed intact, thanks to the preservation work of Mutchnick's alma mater Emerson College.   The "Vote, Honey" viral video proved so popular, it launched NBC into talks with Mutchnick, Kohan and the cast about the revival.

As Mutchnick notes, "Dave and I are absolutely thrilled about the opportunity to write what Will, Grace, Jack and Karen are thinking about in 2017."

The Real O'Neals gain steam in season 2

The cast of ABC's The Real O'Neals: (l-r):
Jay Ferguson, Mary Hollis Inboden, Noah Galvin,
Martha Plimpton, Bebe Wood, Matt Shively

After returning earlier in October for its second season, tonight ABC’s The Real O’Neals presents its first Halloween episode (9:30 Eastern/Pacific) – and its central character Kenny O’Neal’s (Noah Galvin) first Halloween after coming out to his family.

As the ABC comedy, which premiered at midseason earlier in 2016, continues to get stronger in this second year, I spoke with its three executive producers during the season 2 premiere screening at Los Angeles’ Paley Center for Media about how far the show has evolved, and what we can expect in episodes to come.

Must-Hear TV:  What is special about The Real O’Neals that drew you to the pilot script and to the show?

Casey Johnson:  Initially we were really excited about the idea of telling a real coming-of-age story for a gay teenager in today’s America.  That seemed really exciting to us, especially on network television.  It hadn’t been done before, so we were thrilled about that.  Also, the story about a divorce happening in real time.  We felt like that hadn’t been seen either.

MHTV:  Is there anything in the second season – whether it be guest stars or storylines -- that you wanted to get to in the first season that we’ll see now?

David Windsor:  Well there are definitely some guest stars.  In the season premiere episode, we had Jane Lynch, RuPaul, Lance Bass and Tyler Oakley.  And later on, a couple of episodes later, we have our chefs. 

The Real O'Neals executive producers (l-r):
Casey Johnson, David Windsor, Stacy Traub

Stacy Traub:  We have Alex Guarnaschelli, Toni Lofaso and Graham Elliot.  It’s a Chopped fantasy, kind of “Kenny’s Kitchen Nightmares.”  That was really fun, recreating a cooking show.

DW:  We’re still trying to get Jesus back for a role.

CJ:  He’s busy

ST:  We have Robbie Rogers and Gus Kenworthy, the silver medalist.  And we’re definitely going to have Tim Gunn back.  He’s shooting Project Runway right now, but as soon as he’s done, he tells us he’ll come back.

MHTV:  What did you learn from season 1 that affects season 2?

CJ:  I think one of the things we’re doing – we talk about season 1 with Kenny about being gay in theory, and now we’re talking about him being gay in practice.  And what does that mean in the world?  What does his first gay Halloween look like, when he wants to dress as Beyonce?  How does Eileen feel about that now that she knows he’s gay?  We’re going to have Kenny get a boyfriend this year and watch the steps of that relationship.  We’ll see what that means for Kenny, and what it means for the rest of the family.

MHTV:  Did you have any trepidation about doing that on network TV?

DW:  ABC has always been really supportive of everything we wanted to do.  We never ran into any roadblocks with them.  They were always encouraging of going further and further.  So if we had any fears, they was put down right away.  We were given a green light to move forward with those stories.

MHTV:  What can two teen boys do on television on a date?  Can you suggest that they fool around?  How far can they go on network TV?

ST:  Well we’re not there yet, but there’s definitely lots of kissing.  Yes, Kenny is tippy-toeing into the relationship, but we’re not going to shy away from it.  We’re going to be real, and teenagers fool around.  So we’ll get there.

MHTV:  The election will be over just a month into your season, and you’ll go well beyond that.  But has anything about this political climate seeped into the show?

CJ:  It hasn’t seeped in directly.  We don’t make any direct commentary at all.  But I think our show has always been about love and acceptance.  So if people see that as a commentary on our world today, that’s our point of view. 

ST:  We tried to stay away from politics, just because it’s so timely and you don’t know exactly when the episode is going to air.  Or who’s going to win.  So it’s in the world, but not directly discussed.

MHTV:  Do you have any casting for any of Kenny’s boyfriends or dates?  And does Noah have any input?

DW:  Well, we brought in a few guys for Noah to read with.  They were all really incredible, and we wanted to make sure that they had really good chemistry.  So we cast Sean Grandillo, who is an amazing theater actor.  He was in Spring Awakening.  He and Noah actually knew each other and had a friendship before the show even started, so the chemistry just kicked off right away.

CJ:  We introduce him in our Christmas episode, where Eileen is the choirmaster for the St. Barkley’s choir.  And it builds to this beautiful scene with a Christmas song/pop song mashup that Noah sings with Sean.  And it’s really really beautiful. 

MHTV:  I would hope that would the kind of thing that would win over early critics, such as from Catholic groups.  Have you heard that they have come around to understanding that the show is loving and supporting, and far from sacrilegious?

DW:  I think there’s been no reaction, which is a better reaction.  Matt Shively [who plays older brother Jimmy] was saying today on another panel that we were on that the Catholic League, for example, softened a little bit.  I think they finally saw some episodes and were like, “Oh, okay.  Well, maybe that’s not as outrageous as I was thinking before.”

CJ:  The feedback we’ve gotten directly are from Catholic people we know and who are in our lives.  Just the feedback from them saying, “This seems like our lives, this seems like my family.”  That’s really gratifying for us.  Because that’s what we’re trying to do.

Another Undateable Duo

Undateable's Ron Funches (l) and David Fynn

According to his posts on Twitter, on tonight's live episode of Undateable -- the second installment of Undateable's all-live third season on NBC -- actor David Fynn, who plays gay British bartender Brett, will be periscoping live from within a scene.  It's one of the many ways Undateable is reinventing the live broadcast, and folding viewers into the experience via a variety of social media.

Last week, just in advance of the show's season premiere, I sat down with David and co-star Ron Funches, whose character Shelly has a way of imbuing even the most edgy of remarks with his trademark cuddliness and likeability.  I talked with the two about everything from Ron's weight loss -- 75 pounds since last season! -- and their biggest fears about what could happen live, tonight at 8PM Eastern (rebroadcast for other time zones) tonight on NBC.

Must-Hear TV:  Ron, you look a little different from last year.  How did you do it?

Ron Funches:  Just working out.  Exercises with a trainer.  And I hate it.

MHTV:  How is the show going to explain Shelly's new appearance?

RF:  I don’t think they’re going to have to.  I lost 75 pounds, but I’m magically still fat!  So it works!  I think they’ll just let it go.

MHTV:  Come on, with all the live stuff that could happen on the show?  Last year, Chris D'Elia's Danny commented on Brent Morin's character Justin's weight.  So you think they’re just going to let it go for Shelly?

RF:  That would be fine!  Great, bring it up, get me more dates!

MHTV:  When you were told you were going to do live shows all year, were you intimidated?

David Fynn:  No.  I think this is a cast that embraces pressure like that.  The four boys come from standup backgrounds, Bridgit [Mendler] is a live performer, and I’ve done theater and stuff.  I think if any cast is going to embrace live TV, I think it’s going to be us.  I think we kind of get off on the adrenaline of it as well.  Like on our tape nights, when things were kind of coming out a bit crazy and the improv was going a bit crazy, you could really feel that energy from the audience.  And I think to have that in a live scenario suits our cast very well.

MHTV:  What’s your worst nightmare of what could happen?

DF:  Cursing, for sure.

RF:  Cursing is the worst nightmare.  But also, because the show will be doing some things where they unexpectedly put the camera on other [audience] people, what if that person curses?  That’s my worst nightmare, where it’s someone out of our control.

DF:  I guess dropping a line would be pretty bad.  But someone would save you, though.  You’d be fine.

MHTV:  You’re all skilled enough in working without a net that you can cover for each other.

DF:  Sure.  And because we rehearse quite a lot now, we know the story so well that if a line goes, the most important thing is that you’re tuned into the story, so someone will bail you out.

MHTV:  Do you have a dream guest star you’d like this season?

RF:  I like The Rock.  The Rock would come here, and be like, "Oh man, I’m not feeling confident. Shelly, teach me how to be so cool!"  That would be great.

DF:  I’d like Ricky Gervais. 

MHTV:  He could play your dad!

DF:  That would be amazing!  And he’s lovely, too.  I think he’d embrace it.  Let’s get Ricky Gervais!

RF:  Let’s make Ricky Gervais MY dad!

MHTV:  He might be one of those people who could drop the F-bomb.  He’s a little unpredictable.  Maybe he’s the one who’d get the show fined by the FCC!

DF:  And he’d love it as well!

MHTV:  Do you think comedies like Undateable have a specific advantage in addressing stories about race and class, as compared to TV dramas?

RF:  Yes, of course!  The advantage is, you get to tell jokes.  Or more exactly, you can say exactly what you mean, and people will think it’s a joke.  And those are usually the best jokes, when you’re really just saying what you truly believe, but because it’s an uncomfortable truth, people are going to laugh at their reaction.  When you’re doing it in a drama, you have a tendency to be whiny or preachy.  But when you’re using humor, you can diffuse the situation and make light of it, and be very honest without people really holding you to it.

MHTV:  Do you guys have in the back of your heads some lines that you would throw out there in a nervous moment, or just to mess with your costars?  Are you banking stuff to play with in the scenes?

RF:  No, because I feel like that’s cheating.  That’s taking away the live atmosphere.  What will happen is when we’re live, because we’re very funny people we’ll play the situation.  And if something comes up, we’ll say it.

DF:  I think we all had moments in the [live season 2] finale that we improv’d something.  I think the first [East Coast broadcast] was a little tighter on the script, and the second show [for the West Coast] everyone was a little bit more loose.  I felt like in the first show people were spotting opportunities, but not taking them as much as in the second.  And then in the second, people were  having little gos and still improvising.  So I still think that spontaneous thing will still be there this season.

MHTV:  What are this seasons's character arcs for Shelly and Brett.  Will Brett get a boyfriend?

DF:  It’s already talked about that I’m possibly seeing a guy, so hopefully we’ll bring him in at some point.

MHTV:  Do you know who they’ll cast?

DF:  I’m pretty sure it’s going to be Anthony Hopkins.  [laughs]

MHTV:  Or, another possible dad!

DF:  Yeah!  My dad actually looks like Anthony Hopkins a bit.

RF:  I know a specific thing but I can’t talk about it.  But I can say that Shelly’s going to have some trials in his life that he’ll have to deal with, coming up.  And we’ll get to watch him deal with them.

MHTV:  Any special ladies?

RF:  I hope so.  I hope so in the show, and in my real life.

MHTV:  What kind of social media things will you be doing to tie into the live performances?

RF:  Every day at 4:30, we’re all going to be doing periscope.  We’ll all have our own individual shows: David will be doing some actor challenges, and I will be doing a thing called Funches’ Favorites, which is basically a lifestyle magazine about being a modern man, just showing you the things that I love.  And then we’ll be live tweeting during the shows.  We’ll be all over social media.

DF:  During scenes, if we’re not speaking, we’ll be on our phones, tweeting.  We’ve been told to do it during scenes.

MHTV:  Just to make it harder, to have more things to juggle!  Are we going to meet any of your family members?  We were joking about your possible dads.

RF:  I haven’t heard anything yet.  I know we’ve been talking about my cousin, who’s meth-addicted.  So hopefully he’ll show up!

Undateable

Airs LIVE for the East Coast, Friday October 16 at 8PM,

Replayed from live broadcast in other time zones

NBC

Meet The McCarthys

Growing up in a suburb of Boston, Brian Gallivan committed a huge sin in the eyes of his sports-crazed, Irish-Catholic family.  It wasn't that he is gay; it’s that he knows nothing about basketball.

In fact, says Tyler Ritter, who plays Gallivan’s alter-ego Ronny on his new CBS sitcom The McCarthys, “The fact that my character is gay isn’t even a driving characteristic.  Our characters are all different but loveable, and the show is about how we learn to get along.”

“The McCarthys is a good combination of traditional family comedy and progressive, edgier stuff,” says former New Kid on the Block Joey McIntyre, who along with Jimmy Dunn and Kelen Coleman were cast as Ronny’s three siblings.  Jack McGee, who plays high school basketball coach and McCarthy patriarch Arthur, speaks from experience when he states that “a lot of Irish families don’t know how to talk to each other – they talk at each other, and it comes out unfiltered.”

It’s that kind of political incorrectness that makes for good comedy, Gallivan says – even if his own real-life family may sometimes bristle at the depiction.  Gallivan’s own clan is bigger – he’s one of six – and of course his own mother isn’t TV royalty as is Mrs. McCarthy, aka Laurie Metcalf.  “But the show is peppered with details from real life.  And so, my family can’t wait to see it,” he explains.  “But then again, every time I go home, they all say, ‘Don’t say anything to him – it’ll end up in an episode!’”

The McCarthys

CBS

Thursdays at 9:30PM

beginning October 30

Two and a Half Married Men

At the Television Critics Association convention last week, CBS President Nina Tassler was excited to make an announcement about the storyline for the twelfth and final, 13-episode season of Two and a Half Men.  After surviving a near-death experience, Walden (Ashton Kutcher) becomes determined to raise a child.  But as a single man, his chances for an adoption getting approved seem slim – so he and Alan (Jon Cryer) stage a sham gay marriage.

On Thursday night, at CBS’ star-studded TCA party at West Hollywood’s Pacific Design Center, I caught up with the show’s executive producer Chuck Lorre, and asked about the inspiration for the storyline.  Chuck is always a fun and candid interviewee, and here he gives some honest assessments of where the long-running show has been, and where it hopes to end up.

Must-Hear TV:  What inspired the gay storyline for Two and a Half Men’s final season?

Chuck Lorre:  It was a brilliant idea that was proposed by Jim Patterson and Don Reo, who are the head writers on the show.  I thought it was both very funny and very heartwearming, that these guys would go to such great lengths to take a kid out of the foster system and give him a home.  Yes, there’s some subterfuge involved in doing that, gaming the system.  But the intention is to give a child a home, and it brings the series back full circle, to where it’s about two men trying to teach a young boy how to become a man.

MHTV:  Any chance the concept could go so well, it could become a spinoff?

Lorre:  I have no idea.  I just fell in love with it the minute they said it.  And I hope it breathes life into the show.  This is the end of Two and a Half Men this season.  But whether this concept goes beyond that, I have no idea.

MHTV:  Whose idea to get married?

Lorre:  It’s Walden’s. 

MHTV:  Does Alan think he’s crazy?

Lorre:  Alan doesn’t want to sign a pre-nup.  He’s no fool.  The guy’s a billionaire!

MHTV:  Wasn’t Alan’s dream always to marry a billionaire?

Lorre:  Yes.  And now, there are issues of money, and a joint checking account.  And hopefully we can play this for comedy.  Their basic intention, I think, is wonderful.  They want to have a child.  And sexuality is irrelevant.  If you’re taking care of a child, who cares what you do in the privacy of your bedroom.  Isn’t that the whole point?

MHTV:   Or what you don’t do.   You have played with the gay subtext over the years.

Lorre:  Oh absolutely.  We have dominated the cheap laughs in that arena.  I know what the show is.  The show is what it is.  But it’s been hilariously good fun to do it.

MHTV:  Does this marriage and fatherhood preclude the guys from ending up in happily-ever-after relationships with women by the end of the show?

Lorre:  I think their romantic travails will go forward.  It’s a TV series, not a movie.  Their lives go on.  They’re going to be cheating spouses.

MHTV:  Like green card spouses “cheat” on each other?

Lorre:  Yes.  There’s no effort here in our last and final season to try to reach for any dignity.  It’s too late for that.

MHTV:  Has the child been cast?  How old is he?

Lorre:  We have not cast the child yet.  But we’re looking.  Probably between 5 and 10 years old. 

MHTV:  Definitely a boy?

Lorre:  We’re thinking a boy right now.  Because that was the essence of the whole idea in the beginning.  These two very different men raising a young boy, and trying to have an impact on his maturation.  And really the combination of the two of them was the best parent.  

MHTV:  When a show touches on LGBT themes in a comic way like this, there’s a potential for blowback.  Do you anticipate people having a problem with the storyline?

Lorre:  I hope there’s none.  The show has always caused controversy.  There’s no intention to insult or diminish anyone.  The intention is to create laughter.  That’s it.  Create laughter, and if it’s got a heartbeat in there somewhere, that would be nice, too.

MHTV:  Are you hoping to bring back any characters for the final season who were part of the show earlier?  Might we see Charlie or Charlie’s ghost?

Lorre:  We haven’t discussed that.  We were really focused on finding a storyline that puts Jon and Ashton front and center in a really interesting, hopefully funny and provocative story.  That was our priority going in in this last year.  What’s the storyline that puts these two guys right in the middle of it?  So outside characters will come in as they do, but that’s the focus right now.

MHTV:  It’s a storyline that has generated the most interest in the show in years.

Lorre:  Yes – in year twelve!

MHTV:  You’re like the SVU of comedy!  And the gay marriage storyline couldn’t be more timely.

Lorre:  Yeah, it’s timely, and again, it has a heartbeat.  Ashton Kutcher himself is a man with a huge heart – he’s very engaged in social welfare, and puts a lot of time and money into making things better.  And getting a little of that spirit in the show – rather than having him do what the show used to be – has been a journey.  This seems like the next logical step.  Not romance, not sex, but raising a child.  We had enough sex on this show.

MHTV:  Really?  There’s sex?  There are sex jokes?  I didn’t catch those.

Lorre:  I think adding any more sexual jokes on this show could actually be a misdemeanor of some sort.

Two and a Half Men

CBS

Returns Thursday, October 30

9 PM